Blind Loyalty Challenge with Ernie Harker

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Hi there, I'm Amanda Cromhoe from Truth. Welcome to the Blind Laugherty

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Challenge.

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We interview world experts in loyalty blindly. We're hoping to create insight,

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spontaneity

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and a lot of fun through the challenge. The challenge is about promoting the

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Blind Laugherty

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Trust and my book called Blind Laugherty, a 101 loyalty concept radically

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simplified.

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All profits from the book go towards the trust. We hope you enjoy the Blind L

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augherty Challenge.

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So today's Blind Laugherty Challenge is a challenge with a difference because

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actually,

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I don't think I'm going to ask Ernie too much about loyalty, but there's lots

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to be said about

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where loyalty fits within the broader marketing mix. So today I have the

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absolute pleasure of

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Ernie Hawker joining us. He was tagged by Bill Hannefen and Bill needs no

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introduction to our

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loyalty world. And Ernie, you're a professional speaker in branding and and and

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so super to have

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you and I'm really excited about our conversation to come. Me too. I can't wait

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to see what the

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surprises you have in store for me are. Well that sounds like a challenge back

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to me, so let's go.

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Chapter seven of Blind Laugherty is about customer experience and I feel very

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passionately

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which I explain in the book around how loyalty fits into that. It's not a

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separate thing. It's

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not like stuck out there on its own. But before we even worry about that level

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of detail, what is

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your own personal worst customer experience you've had? Oh my gosh. I think the

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worst one I ever had

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was I went to a sandwich place, a very popular sandwich restaurant. They make

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the sandwiches

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right in front of you. And I showed up probably about one o'clock. So a little

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after the rush hour,

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I was the only one there and I came up and stood right where you're supposed to

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you know order here.

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I stand there. There's one guy working. There's Tipplegage's one guy working,

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but

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he was I don't know what he was doing. He was just kind of off to the side

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doing preparing

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something or whatever. But his body language, the experience was so terrible.

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He goes after like

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two minutes or three minutes of just me standing there like just am I invisible

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? He didn't greet me

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or anything. He looks up at me and he's like what do you want? Oh my goodness.

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And I'm like

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here's what I said. I said do you hate your job? And that caught him totally by

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surprise. And he's

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like huh? I go do you do you hate? You look absolutely miserable. And he goes

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no it's all right.

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And I go well just and from my perspective, it makes it very

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dissatisfied to come here. It seems like I am totally erupting your day. I'm

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not important to you

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because I'm in the marketing business. I'm in customer experience. So I thought

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has anybody ever

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told this guy that he is absolutely miserable and his misery rubbed off on me?

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So worst customer

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experience ever. So you know when we audit program, loyalty programs, one of

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the most fundamental

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factors is is it loved by your people. And that's the program. Let alone the

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sandwich they're making.

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We're fully aligned on that one. Okay, so in the first few chapters of the book

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, we talked strategy

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and so on. And I just wanted to really get pick your brains on what do you

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believe is the power

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of loyalty and rewards programs in the broader brand strategy space?

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Well, there's two different ways I would kind of look at this. One is how can

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your business create

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a reward that is unique? And I think what we do typically is we kind of just

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fall into the

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system or the typical process. For example, you know, you get a few cents back

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or you get for

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you know, get a percentage back. So what can your organization do that is

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different to give

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someone a reward? So for example, I used to work at Maverick and we would

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create these

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outrageously fun outdoor adventure prizes that kind of magnified and reflected

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the adventure

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brand that we had. Now, you know, like we did a truck Norris, a work truck

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named after Chuck Norris

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that had Chuck Norris emblems and Americana stuff all over it. Now, every any

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convenience

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or couldn't really do that because it wouldn't fit in their brand. So it

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created a come point of

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difference. So that's like the first thing. It's like, what can I do as a prize

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or reward

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that is unique to my business? And I think that's like, okay, not just a free

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cup of coffee after

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every 10 cups. It's like, what can you do? And it takes a little bit of digging

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and it takes a

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little bit of creativity. So I forgot what the second one was, but that was the

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first one.

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Yeah, and it links we often ask our clients like, what are your brand assets?

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Like, what have you

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got that you can you can pass just your members rather than to everybody and

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make that experience

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just totally unique. So yeah, yeah, we should have spoken earlier.

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Yeah, my last question's got absolutely nothing to do, loyalty, but you're

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super interesting

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guys. I'd like to ask you this. What is your favorite loyalty? Not loyalty.

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What's your favorite

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business book? Oh my gosh, my favorite business book. I think the one that I've

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referenced more

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than any other book. And I've done a lot like, so Emith is super, super helpful

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for me as an

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entrepreneur. Yeah, that was super constructive. But I think the one I

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referenced more than anything

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from a personal life and business life is Tim Ferriss's The Four Hour Work Week

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. Because it's

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so easy for me to just work hard, but not work smart. And he has a saying, are

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you working for

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a work sake? And I do I find myself going, well, I can do a gazillion things.

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So I should do a gazillion

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things. Yeah, and he's very, um, choiceful in the kinds of things that he does.

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So yeah, there's

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the Emith, the Four Hour Work Week. I keep it next to my nights. I often would

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keep it next to my

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nightstand where I keep my scriptures, my Bible. And my wife would tease me

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because he would be,

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she'd be like, are you reading Brother Ferriss? You know, like this, like this

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prophet. And I'm like,

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no, no, no, no, no. He's not that big a deal, but he's kind of a big deal. Yeah

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, he's second to that.

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That's beautiful. Well, it's quite selfish that I asked this question because

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obviously I walk

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away with a wonderful book list. And but I know lots of folks love that this

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question. So thank you,

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lovely. Haven't had four hour walk week before, but I do know it. Great. So Er

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nie, you were tagged by

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Bill Hanifin. Who would you like to tag for me to bring on to the challenge?

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You know what I'd say,

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Ben Lucky is a cool guy. He, um, I knew him from Maverick. He's a fantastic

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like food guy. He is

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in the convenience industry. Who else would be good? Are you looking for like

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loyalty type people?

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No, Ben's good. You're gonna have to help me introduce in the direction. But

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yeah, we're good.

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We're good with them. Awesome. I've got a couple other guys too. I'll have to

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send you

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their names. One guy is, he leads a program called the Gentleman Project. And

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he's taught,

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his whole project is about helping men become better, better fathers. Oh, wow.

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And it's a powerful,

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he's got a huge podcast that, that drives that. He's really passionate about

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being just a better

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dad. And let's see. That's incredible. Sounds amazing. I'm sure. Yeah, he's a

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rock star.

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Really, really nice guy. And also I'll have to think of the third one because I

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want to.

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You want to give me through your live screen? Okay, we'll chat offline.

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Thank you, Ernie. What an absolute pleasure. Thank you for doing the Blind

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Order Challenge.

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My pleasure. Thanks for having me.